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 Whats the point?

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Jeff

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PostSubject: Whats the point?   Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:37 am

Body conditioning: Whats the point? How does it relate to martial arts and/or fighting?

Thanks,
-Jeff
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Jeff

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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:22 am

Sad
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ken



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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:29 am

Jeff,
What type of body conditioning are we talking about? Working out to gain strength, speed, cardiovascular, muscle endurance. Or are we talking like Iron Palm/pole/broom/body? Being of sound mind?
I do believe muscle conditioning/flexibility, and cardiovascular are really important. Not just for Fu, but for health. I believe Iron Palm/pole/broom/body are important not only surviving a fight and Fu, but also health of the body. Being of sound mind helps the body, and allows a person to push beyond the limitations we all set.
I will try and expand on some of the stuff when I have more time. Happy Easter.

kennon
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Jeff

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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:05 am

Where ever you feel like going brother. It is just an open discussion for the reader/poster to determin what they feel they can offer.

You went into an aspect that I've tried discussing many times before, about the mental attribute of conditioning. So I'll ask, can a practioner develop a fighting spirit without actual fighting and with conditioning alone???

That should get it moving in a general direction.
Thanks,
-Jeff
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ken



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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:04 am

Thanks Jeff,
Mentally, I believe you can train that into your mind. We can start out with resent events and move back in history.
I believe every time we venture on down to Kentucky you train us hard. Yes, we all have some fun, but you train us mentally to focus past what we are doing and focus on the finish. I believe you and Shane told us a story about GM Tim cut down a tree, cut off the branches and then had you walk down the length of that tree while your brothers beat you on the shins w/the branches. If you fell off you had to start again. Your only goal was to get to the end of the tree without falling off.
Even the army/marines train their soldiers to mentally prepare for what they are gonna do. Drilling and training helps mentally prepare them for battle. Look at valley forge. A rag tag bunch of revolutionary soldiers settle down for the winter. A hard French bastard general? hired by the army comes in Drills the men into a fighting machine. Standing shoulder to shoulder going against what at the time was Biggest, baddest and best equipped army.
The fighting spirit is in all of us. It just has to be developed. It can be trained in you to be a mentally tougher fighter. It is apart of training, to gain the confidence you need in the techniques that fit you.

peace
kennon
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DANNY



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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:28 am

lets here from some more people on this one.... I have some pretty strong opinoins here and I want to see if any one else has my point of view before
I throw it out there. And see If what I say changes any minds.

Danny
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ngtigerstudent



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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:22 am

Jeff,

The last part of your question can you train the mental for fighting without actually fighting? I think that when you condition the body you are doing both. you are building the body and at the same time developing a mental confidence in what you are finding out your body can and cant do. When your brain has solid info about your body it becomes confident and focussed. When your mind is not sure it becomes weak. If I dont practice fighting my mind can only speculate what my body can do. That breeds doubt and hesitation and my mind may panic when my head gets punched. If I have been there and done that my mind knows what I can do, what techniques have worked, what hasnt, what will hurt me and what I can walk through. My mind is strong when it is cleared of doubt and allowed to be confident. I still belive you train your mental by training your physical and there is no substitute for physical conditioning and throwing and being thrown and punching and being punched. the only way I know that I can still bang late in the 3rd round is if I have done it in the gym over and over. Otherwise uncharted territory is not where the mind is strongest and most confident. Just my humble opinion.
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DANNY



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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:01 pm

If the question is, can you develop a fighting sprit without having fought the answer is no. You have to hit and get hit in order to develop this thing. However, some are born with it and do not need to develop it.
I will address both but first let me sumerize. A fighting spirit in my mind is a mindset that lets you move into a confrontation with confidence and allows you to follow through and leave with the same confidence. Regardless of how hard you are hit or thrown or kicked.

Some people are born with this, remember, this is not courage. Courage is following through in the face of fear. Some people are just less concerened than others about being hurt.
I know when I was young I was fearless, give me a dare and I would do it. I had nothing to lose, and that got me into quite a few fights and gave me some ill gained knowledge and experience. Now that I am older and have a family I view things from diff side of the coin and realize the impact that my foolishness can have on others. Am I less confident in my fighting? no. I am in fact more confident because I am able to correct the mistakes I made through having exrperienced them.
I am a firm beliver that you have to have fought in order to know what you are getting into. I am not implying that you go out and beat people up, but if you have never been hit or thrown hard you have know idea what you are getting into, and all the perfect techniques in the world will fall apart if when you get hit, you become enraged, shaken or carless. All three of these are huge weeknesses and gaps in your armour.
We do Shuai Jiao & San Da here at The Monkey in order to give people the chance to get thrown and hit and to experience to a degree what a fight is like. but both of these are regulated and anytime you regulate something you take from it a measure of reality.
It is the best I can offer my students outside of having them beat up by old training partners and kung fu brothers.
Wether they choose to take advantage of it is up to them.

Danny
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michael kinnett



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PostSubject: Re: Whats the point?   Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:38 pm

Some good responses so far, this is a great post in my opinion. For me, training merely to fight hasn't been something I really thought of. I trained things for sport but I always used raw instinct when I fought.. Many times when I was younger 8-20 years-old, I would fight on a whim if I thought someone I knew was going to be hurt or needed to be defended.. Respect was always such a huge thing for me and it didn't help that I have always cared a lot for friends and family.

So having that mentality, some training, and being in the mindset that I'd rather hurt someone before I'd see my friends get hurt, I got into a LOT of fights.. Some very ugly, some not so much.. Looking back at the fighting now, I see how stupid and useless it was but at the same time very valuable.. I learned fairly young how to control myself and how to pretty well control the adrenaline rush and not get all over hyper and lose it.

The physical conditioning we do in TCMA does give us a few tools to start working on the fighters spirit within. Enduring pain, taking shots, knowing how to deliver, getting that flow in our body where you don't even think about technique because your body will do it anyway, and other things of those nature do help.

A fighting spirit though I agree with my Sifu. I think some are born with it and some can develop it but not all are capable of it, this is one of those fight or flight discussions we're getting into now. Only so much can be done as we will subconsciously and psychologically not be capable of more than we are predetermined to be..

One thing I do know that training can do for your fighters spirit is something it has done for me.. Give you the awareness that a physical altercation can be SO MUCH more dangerous than we give credit.. I never thought of doing the things we practice to do when I used to get into crap, and I think my Sifu and my brothers for showing me how devastating it can be.
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